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	<title>Comments on: Revolutionary mutterings at SABC</title>
	<atom:link href="http://grubstreet.co.za/2009/06/revolutionary-mutterings-at-sabc/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://grubstreet.co.za/2009/06/revolutionary-mutterings-at-sabc/</link>
	<description>South Africa Digested</description>
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		<title>By: Freejeff</title>
		<link>http://grubstreet.co.za/2009/06/revolutionary-mutterings-at-sabc/comment-page-1/#comment-1029</link>
		<dc:creator>Freejeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:30:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grubstreet.co.za/?p=1839#comment-1029</guid>
		<description>Gill, without meaning to sound disparaging or condescending, I accept your apology wholeheartedly;  and hope you do contact me with any queries or issues. My primary email for this cause is webmaster@wildcoast.com.

If there is anything I can do to help your research, please let me know. I would really love to have someone with superior literary skills on our side. I feel totally inadequate to express the depths of the injustice I perceive.

Hope to hear from you.

Jeff Brown
074-101 5170</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gill, without meaning to sound disparaging or condescending, I accept your apology wholeheartedly;  and hope you do contact me with any queries or issues. My primary email for this cause is <a href="mailto:webmaster@wildcoast.com">webmaster@wildcoast.com</a>.</p>
<p>If there is anything I can do to help your research, please let me know. I would really love to have someone with superior literary skills on our side. I feel totally inadequate to express the depths of the injustice I perceive.</p>
<p>Hope to hear from you.</p>
<p>Jeff Brown<br />
074-101 5170</p>
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		<title>By: Gill</title>
		<link>http://grubstreet.co.za/2009/06/revolutionary-mutterings-at-sabc/comment-page-1/#comment-978</link>
		<dc:creator>Gill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 14:19:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grubstreet.co.za/?p=1839#comment-978</guid>
		<description>Freejeff, My apologies. I didn&#039;t know you were a Transkeian and know of what you speak. I&#039;ve been thinking of going deeper into this and would love to chat to you if you wouldn&#039;t mind (after doing muhc more reading on the subject).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Freejeff, My apologies. I didn&#8217;t know you were a Transkeian and know of what you speak. I&#8217;ve been thinking of going deeper into this and would love to chat to you if you wouldn&#8217;t mind (after doing muhc more reading on the subject).</p>
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		<title>By: Freejeff</title>
		<link>http://grubstreet.co.za/2009/06/revolutionary-mutterings-at-sabc/comment-page-1/#comment-947</link>
		<dc:creator>Freejeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:02:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grubstreet.co.za/?p=1839#comment-947</guid>
		<description>Wow. That&#039;s a real dose of positivity for a Monday. :-/

So your view, now, is that the N2 *toll* road is justified because a) SANRAL &quot;get things done&quot; and b) there can be no socio-economic development so we may as well destroy the Pondoland Center of Endemism and thousands of people&#039;s lifestyles in the name of economic progress?

I&#039;ve lived in the Transkei all my life (barring a few years in Durban &amp; Jozi) and I wouldn&#039;t want to live anywhere else. Been a full-time resident of Hole in the Wall for the past 3 years, and, apart from various other things, I&#039;ve been working on a community development project funded by DEAT&#039;s SRPP programme (Social Responsibility Policy and Projects). 

There is socio-economic development. But it&#039;s happening very slowly and will take decades, even centuries, before there are equal opportunities for the tribal communities that got left behind. Please God let them still have access to their own land and heritage by the time that happens.

And there is no rush. South Africa is basically a welfare state, and with their sense of community and extended families; nobody is starving in these areas. We have time. African Time. : )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow. That&#8217;s a real dose of positivity for a Monday. :-/</p>
<p>So your view, now, is that the N2 *toll* road is justified because a) SANRAL &#8220;get things done&#8221; and b) there can be no socio-economic development so we may as well destroy the Pondoland Center of Endemism and thousands of people&#8217;s lifestyles in the name of economic progress?</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve lived in the Transkei all my life (barring a few years in Durban &amp; Jozi) and I wouldn&#8217;t want to live anywhere else. Been a full-time resident of Hole in the Wall for the past 3 years, and, apart from various other things, I&#8217;ve been working on a community development project funded by DEAT&#8217;s SRPP programme (Social Responsibility Policy and Projects). </p>
<p>There is socio-economic development. But it&#8217;s happening very slowly and will take decades, even centuries, before there are equal opportunities for the tribal communities that got left behind. Please God let them still have access to their own land and heritage by the time that happens.</p>
<p>And there is no rush. South Africa is basically a welfare state, and with their sense of community and extended families; nobody is starving in these areas. We have time. African Time. : )</p>
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		<title>By: gillm</title>
		<link>http://grubstreet.co.za/2009/06/revolutionary-mutterings-at-sabc/comment-page-1/#comment-945</link>
		<dc:creator>gillm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 08:43:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grubstreet.co.za/?p=1839#comment-945</guid>
		<description>Hey Freejeff. I&#039;m guessing you don&#039;t live in the Eastern Cape.

I agree it would be better to spend money on schools, hospitals and other socio-economic projects in the Transkei than building a road. However, the reason why this road is going ahead is that it falls under the national roads agency and they acutally get things done. 

The provincial government here is so dysfunctional that they have vast budget surpluses every year because government departments do not have skills to build and maintain things. Most businesses in the province refuse to work for the provincial government as they take so long to pay and you&#039;ve got to get debt collectors to get your money out of them. Corruption is also rife and there is much skullduggery in the tender process. I&#039;ve even heard BEE companies complain that they are just part of a window-dressing scheme when tendering as the work has already been promised to a relative of a civil servant.  

So, socio-economic development in the Transkei? That&#039;s not going to happen. It&#039;s a pipe dream.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Freejeff. I&#8217;m guessing you don&#8217;t live in the Eastern Cape.</p>
<p>I agree it would be better to spend money on schools, hospitals and other socio-economic projects in the Transkei than building a road. However, the reason why this road is going ahead is that it falls under the national roads agency and they acutally get things done. </p>
<p>The provincial government here is so dysfunctional that they have vast budget surpluses every year because government departments do not have skills to build and maintain things. Most businesses in the province refuse to work for the provincial government as they take so long to pay and you&#8217;ve got to get debt collectors to get your money out of them. Corruption is also rife and there is much skullduggery in the tender process. I&#8217;ve even heard BEE companies complain that they are just part of a window-dressing scheme when tendering as the work has already been promised to a relative of a civil servant.  </p>
<p>So, socio-economic development in the Transkei? That&#8217;s not going to happen. It&#8217;s a pipe dream.</p>
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		<title>By: Freejeff</title>
		<link>http://grubstreet.co.za/2009/06/revolutionary-mutterings-at-sabc/comment-page-1/#comment-934</link>
		<dc:creator>Freejeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 10:17:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grubstreet.co.za/?p=1839#comment-934</guid>
		<description>No toll road in the world has ever helped the rural communities they run through, and they drive up their transport costs because of the *tolls*. Obviously. Look at all the squatter shacks on the side of the road between Hibberdene and Durban, and btw, have you ever seen those people taking their lives in hand, desperately trying to cross the current N2 toll road in peak holiday season?

Sure, it will bring people like yourself to the area, which will inevitably become an extension of the South Coast, and spell doom for the centre of endemism and what is one of the last pristine areas in South Africa.

Also, the previous EIA (the current one has not yet been finalized) points out that there will be significant environmental damage, and, to ensure safety the road will be fenced off and there will be very limited access. This will result in several things: traditional grazing grounds will be cut off, inland local residents will not be able to reach the coastline for subsistence fishing, and coastal residents will not be able to gain access to the road network without going extreme distances out of their way. So tell me again, who&#039;s benefit are they claiming this is for exactly?

At an estimated cost (in 2002) of between R2 - R3 billion for a 4 lane highway, it would be wiser to rather upgrade the current roads and spend the rest on education and socio-economic development. Unfortunately there are billions in revenue at stake with the mining and the *toll* road, and first world style macro-economic tourism, industrial and agricultural developments; so the most basic human traits of greed, foolishness, and self-interest will most likely ensure the end result. Unfortunately.

The road between Port St Johns and Mthatha is actually an excellent road. I drove that road, both ways, every workday for 2 years in the mid 90&#039;s, and I know people that still do that.

They&#039;re busy surveying the road between Coffee Bay and Hole in the Wall at the moment, as it is going to be tarred. I had a young man come to me in tears a few weeks ago because the surveyor had put a marker on his property and he thought that they would be demolishing his home to make way for the road. He&#039;s spent years and all his income on building his own home, and no amount of money can replace that. So I phoned the surveyor to inquire, and established that there would be no relocations, and thus put his mind at rest. True story. 

But imagine what&#039;s going to happen to hundreds of families if they go ahead with the proposed route. It just makes so much more sense to upgrade the existing R61. Environmentally, socially AND economically. Even if it is more expensive in the short term.

People should learn to respect nature more, and not place economic development ahead of quality of life or &quot;sense of place&quot;.

By the way, the proposed toll road goes from PSJ to Mthatha, and from there to Idutywa, Butterworth and East London. You can download the old EIA with a map of the proposed route here: www.nra.co.za/content/EIA083EcoRpt1.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No toll road in the world has ever helped the rural communities they run through, and they drive up their transport costs because of the *tolls*. Obviously. Look at all the squatter shacks on the side of the road between Hibberdene and Durban, and btw, have you ever seen those people taking their lives in hand, desperately trying to cross the current N2 toll road in peak holiday season?</p>
<p>Sure, it will bring people like yourself to the area, which will inevitably become an extension of the South Coast, and spell doom for the centre of endemism and what is one of the last pristine areas in South Africa.</p>
<p>Also, the previous EIA (the current one has not yet been finalized) points out that there will be significant environmental damage, and, to ensure safety the road will be fenced off and there will be very limited access. This will result in several things: traditional grazing grounds will be cut off, inland local residents will not be able to reach the coastline for subsistence fishing, and coastal residents will not be able to gain access to the road network without going extreme distances out of their way. So tell me again, who&#8217;s benefit are they claiming this is for exactly?</p>
<p>At an estimated cost (in 2002) of between R2 &#8211; R3 billion for a 4 lane highway, it would be wiser to rather upgrade the current roads and spend the rest on education and socio-economic development. Unfortunately there are billions in revenue at stake with the mining and the *toll* road, and first world style macro-economic tourism, industrial and agricultural developments; so the most basic human traits of greed, foolishness, and self-interest will most likely ensure the end result. Unfortunately.</p>
<p>The road between Port St Johns and Mthatha is actually an excellent road. I drove that road, both ways, every workday for 2 years in the mid 90&#8242;s, and I know people that still do that.</p>
<p>They&#8217;re busy surveying the road between Coffee Bay and Hole in the Wall at the moment, as it is going to be tarred. I had a young man come to me in tears a few weeks ago because the surveyor had put a marker on his property and he thought that they would be demolishing his home to make way for the road. He&#8217;s spent years and all his income on building his own home, and no amount of money can replace that. So I phoned the surveyor to inquire, and established that there would be no relocations, and thus put his mind at rest. True story. </p>
<p>But imagine what&#8217;s going to happen to hundreds of families if they go ahead with the proposed route. It just makes so much more sense to upgrade the existing R61. Environmentally, socially AND economically. Even if it is more expensive in the short term.</p>
<p>People should learn to respect nature more, and not place economic development ahead of quality of life or &#8220;sense of place&#8221;.</p>
<p>By the way, the proposed toll road goes from PSJ to Mthatha, and from there to Idutywa, Butterworth and East London. You can download the old EIA with a map of the proposed route here: <a href="http://www.nra.co.za/content/EIA083EcoRpt1.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.nra.co.za/content/EIA083EcoRpt1.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: gillm</title>
		<link>http://grubstreet.co.za/2009/06/revolutionary-mutterings-at-sabc/comment-page-1/#comment-909</link>
		<dc:creator>gillm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 15:08:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grubstreet.co.za/?p=1839#comment-909</guid>
		<description>...&quot;a gazillion hours&quot; I meant to say. Does anyone remember the big Capital count down in December every year and they always made &quot;Bridge over Troubled Water&quot; number one because it was the first song they ever played on air?  It&#039;s also where Barry Ronge really started off with his movie show on Sundays.

It was the soundtrack of my youth, Anthony. It&#039;s a pleasure to have you at Grubstreet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;&#8221;a gazillion hours&#8221; I meant to say. Does anyone remember the big Capital count down in December every year and they always made &#8220;Bridge over Troubled Water&#8221; number one because it was the first song they ever played on air?  It&#8217;s also where Barry Ronge really started off with his movie show on Sundays.</p>
<p>It was the soundtrack of my youth, Anthony. It&#8217;s a pleasure to have you at Grubstreet.</p>
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		<title>By: gillm</title>
		<link>http://grubstreet.co.za/2009/06/revolutionary-mutterings-at-sabc/comment-page-1/#comment-908</link>
		<dc:creator>gillm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 15:04:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grubstreet.co.za/?p=1839#comment-908</guid>
		<description>And hi there to Anthony. You&#039;re the genius who started Capital Radio! Respect, dude. What a great station that was. It brought a gazillion of pleasure to  East Londoner, who couldn&#039;t pick up any other good stations in the 80s and connected us to the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And hi there to Anthony. You&#8217;re the genius who started Capital Radio! Respect, dude. What a great station that was. It brought a gazillion of pleasure to  East Londoner, who couldn&#8217;t pick up any other good stations in the 80s and connected us to the world.</p>
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		<title>By: gillm</title>
		<link>http://grubstreet.co.za/2009/06/revolutionary-mutterings-at-sabc/comment-page-1/#comment-907</link>
		<dc:creator>gillm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 14:50:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grubstreet.co.za/?p=1839#comment-907</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m sorry Jeff, I don&#039;t think I do understand. How will it drive up transport costs for locals when they will ahve more choice? People in Port St Johns and surrounding villages, for instance, will be able to catch a taxi straight to East London along the new toll road instead of having to go to Mthatha and then get another one to EL. 

And I don&#039;t think traffic will be diverted away from the N2 towns. I think the N2 will remain the main through route for trucks and taxis. Tourists don&#039;t stop at any of these towns at the moment  except to refuel and use the loo while the new toll road will bring many more tourists into the Kei that otherwsie wouldn&#039;t go there -- like me for instance. I know  about the mining issue and that&#039;s a real problem but essentially separate from the long-term benefits of having better roads.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sorry Jeff, I don&#8217;t think I do understand. How will it drive up transport costs for locals when they will ahve more choice? People in Port St Johns and surrounding villages, for instance, will be able to catch a taxi straight to East London along the new toll road instead of having to go to Mthatha and then get another one to EL. </p>
<p>And I don&#8217;t think traffic will be diverted away from the N2 towns. I think the N2 will remain the main through route for trucks and taxis. Tourists don&#8217;t stop at any of these towns at the moment  except to refuel and use the loo while the new toll road will bring many more tourists into the Kei that otherwsie wouldn&#8217;t go there &#8212; like me for instance. I know  about the mining issue and that&#8217;s a real problem but essentially separate from the long-term benefits of having better roads.</p>
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		<title>By: Freejeff</title>
		<link>http://grubstreet.co.za/2009/06/revolutionary-mutterings-at-sabc/comment-page-1/#comment-905</link>
		<dc:creator>Freejeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 13:00:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grubstreet.co.za/?p=1839#comment-905</guid>
		<description>Check this Facebook group http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=6464240822

and this cause http://apps.facebook.com/causes/21445?m=8c3a5226&amp;recruiter_id=5652911 for more info and updates.

Also www.wildcoast.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Check this Facebook group <a href="http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=6464240822" rel="nofollow">http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=6464240822</a></p>
<p>and this cause <a href="http://apps.facebook.com/causes/21445?m=8c3a5226&amp;recruiter_id=5652911" rel="nofollow">http://apps.facebook.com/causes/21445?m=8c3a5226&amp;recruiter_id=5652911</a> for more info and updates.</p>
<p>Also <a href="http://www.wildcoast.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.wildcoast.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Freejeff</title>
		<link>http://grubstreet.co.za/2009/06/revolutionary-mutterings-at-sabc/comment-page-1/#comment-904</link>
		<dc:creator>Freejeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 12:56:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grubstreet.co.za/?p=1839#comment-904</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m afraid you don&#039;t understand the issues along the Transkei Wild Coast in the slightest.

Actually, the *toll* road will drive up transport costs for the locals, and it doesn&#039;t lead anywhere except Port St Johns to Port Edward, so it&#039;s hardly beneficial to them, is it?

The toll road paves the way for strip mining and other environmentally unfriendly macro-economic developments.

The proposed route goes directly through the Pondoland Centre of Endemism, an internationally recognized biodiversity hotspot which contains close to 2,000 species in an area of only 1,800 km2. Furthemore 196 of them are endemic, and dozens of those are on the red data endangered species list.

The route will divert traffic away from Bizana, Flagstaff, Lusikisiki, Kokstad, Mt Frere, Mt Ayliff and Qumbu.

The optimal solution would be to have the current road upgraded. Hundreds of families will be displaced by the planned toll road, to save a mere 80km of travel.

There are many, many more reasons why it&#039;s a bad thing. As much as there are hidden agendas and vested interests.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m afraid you don&#8217;t understand the issues along the Transkei Wild Coast in the slightest.</p>
<p>Actually, the *toll* road will drive up transport costs for the locals, and it doesn&#8217;t lead anywhere except Port St Johns to Port Edward, so it&#8217;s hardly beneficial to them, is it?</p>
<p>The toll road paves the way for strip mining and other environmentally unfriendly macro-economic developments.</p>
<p>The proposed route goes directly through the Pondoland Centre of Endemism, an internationally recognized biodiversity hotspot which contains close to 2,000 species in an area of only 1,800 km2. Furthemore 196 of them are endemic, and dozens of those are on the red data endangered species list.</p>
<p>The route will divert traffic away from Bizana, Flagstaff, Lusikisiki, Kokstad, Mt Frere, Mt Ayliff and Qumbu.</p>
<p>The optimal solution would be to have the current road upgraded. Hundreds of families will be displaced by the planned toll road, to save a mere 80km of travel.</p>
<p>There are many, many more reasons why it&#8217;s a bad thing. As much as there are hidden agendas and vested interests.</p>
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